Tribe.net. Local Connections ron http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#ac5cb4d4-8857-4720-bcdc-25a351afb244 2007-10-25T15:14:46Z 2007-10-25T15:14:46Z

Bea - a vasectomy certainly can't hurt, I've never heard of it having a BAD effect on anyone's health unless that simple operation went wrong - a very rare thing indeed. You asked "the board" what we think is wrong with your husband, and without meeting him there is little I can answer. You mentioned he's not physically active, but tell me if most of these questions can be answered with a resounding "yes": Does your husband have anger issues? Does he spend most of his day sitting in the same position (in front of a computer, behind a machine, etc)? Is he a smoker? Is his belly proportionally larger than the rest of his body? If you feel uncomfortable discussing your husband on a public forum, feel free to send me a private message.

ron 2007-10-25T15:14:46Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#25dafa07-e20a-47f3-9f52-4b4749b75d69 2007-10-24T17:42:18Z 2007-10-24T17:42:18Z

Thanks Nathan I'll try communicating with him. That is hard though because he has difficulties with communication. Most likely it is nothing serious. We are both more than satisfied with our intimacy. We could both do well to work on our health though. Maybe I could encourage him softly, by first suggesting that we take more walks together. He travels M-F so he'd have to decide to exercise on his own then. Thanks again:)

$item.owner.firstName 2007-10-24T17:42:18Z Nathan http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#0b6731cd-94e4-4c7b-bd1a-d36766b2c307 2007-10-24T16:45:41Z 2007-10-24T16:45:41Z

I really don't know how a vasectomy would affect a person's chi or jing. My guess is that it wouldn't do much harm at all. It's a small procedure, and only keeps the spermies from getting to the seminal fluid. The fluid itself, ejaculation, the testicles, and hormones all remain unaffected, so I think it's pretty safe as far as the energy goes. A little Reiki or acupuncture to make sure that the energy can flow through or around the damaged tissue might be helpful, but again, I don't know for sure. If you want to know if his pains are coming from the loss of jing, have him simulate having sex with you for 5-10 minutes without any sexual contact. If he still has those pains afterwards, then it probably has more to do with the exercise than the loss of jing. Of course, as you say he has to want this, and it doesn't sound like he does just yet. The most you can do is to let him know you're worried about him and then be supportive of him and his decisions. I wish you both the best. :)

Nathan 2007-10-24T16:45:41Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#3840dbff-ed9c-4498-a208-f934ef34a00d 2007-10-24T15:35:42Z 2007-10-24T15:35:42Z

Nathan, I'm so glad you found my post! Thanks for taking the time to explain things. After reading your post and others here, now I wonder if my husband is losing his jing somehow. He doesn't practice energy work, in fact he would just laugh or think it alien if I tried to explain it to him. But, that being said, he has felt depleted afterwards and most worrisome, the next day he complains of a strong pain in his shoulder, arm and back. I can't figure that out because it's not as if we are practicing gymnast stunts. I think maybe he should see a doctor. Problem is, he has to want to do something about it. I can't make him. I really think something is wrong with his overall health and wellness. I know there is something he can do about it now, it's not to late yet, but he can't put it off much longer. Oh, and I asked further down about how a vasectomy might effect a man's jing or overall health. My husband has had one and sometimes I wonder if it has adversely effected his health over time and if there is anything he can do about it now. Thanks for any information you can share, Bea

$item.owner.firstName 2007-10-24T15:35:42Z Nathan http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#c5ef1fbc-232c-4762-9616-623609adbf5f 2007-10-24T04:45:44Z 2007-10-24T04:45:44Z

Bea, I think you make a very good point. I'd be lying if I said that I understood all the ins and outs of how this works, but here is my best understanding: The jing doesn't release because of releasing emotional tension, it releases as it's own thing. Emotional release will most certainly increase your lifespan. I think that's why a lot of data shows that those with an active sex life actually live longer than those who don't, despite the loss of jing. Also, if you just bottle up your sexual energies without doing something intelligent with them, they will stagnate and harm you, rather than help you live longer. I don't release any jing when I ejaculate anymore, but it's still a very pleasurable experience, and I do release a lot of tension as a result. The difference is that I don't feel *depleted* by that release, whereas with the release of jing, I did.

Nathan 2007-10-24T04:45:44Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#55c6acb8-c5fa-4252-a310-057d9be6c22b 2007-10-23T21:24:38Z 2007-10-23T21:24:38Z

Nathan, I like it when my husband is able to let go of his tension and experience an emotional release. I know my husband feels better for it as well. I'd hate to think that this release of tension and emotion, as you call it jing was shortening his life. Why would holding in tension and emotion support longevity? Sorry but this kind of thinking sounds as if it with-holds the man's freedom and potential to experience life and love. I'd rather live a shorter and emotionally freer and intimate life with someone I love, than to be captive or confined to maintenance of my jing. Just my opinion.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-10-23T21:24:38Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#f79d6701-9ecc-47ad-ac88-269daa3c631e 2007-10-23T20:16:56Z 2007-10-23T20:16:56Z

I am interested in hearing what the board thinks of Chi, Jing, and health after a vasectomy.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-10-23T20:16:56Z Alchemy http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#9b9f1e21-cff0-456f-a0b9-e12bb1463502 2007-10-23T20:11:06Z 2007-10-23T20:11:06Z

please refer to earlier posts about the difference between 'chi' and 'jing'. Chi is easily replenished, jing is not.

Alchemy 2007-10-23T20:11:06Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#1b41331a-9a20-4e10-b7c6-cf4d8bb92e9a 2007-10-23T17:46:47Z 2007-10-23T17:46:47Z

Or, Why letting go would in some way deplete your Chi or why that would matter? Unless you need the Chi for some sort of personal attack in the time immediately afterwards, wouldn't you replenish your Chi by the time you needed it?(ie the next morning) A build up of Chi is not good and that is why we must release excessive Chi back to the Earth or Energy Source. Right? I mean there is something such as having excessive Chi right?

$item.owner.firstName 2007-10-23T17:46:47Z Alchemy http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#c8a61767-a97c-4b7a-b3c1-f190542f64a5 2007-10-23T16:43:28Z 2007-10-23T16:43:28Z

There is a lot of information on the taoist perspective on this in the Taoist Sex Practices tribe. There are many other approaches.

Alchemy 2007-10-23T16:43:28Z Silence http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#b7e50d39-424c-4141-8ddd-a8d5f459d084 2007-10-23T16:34:33Z 2007-10-23T16:34:33Z

Can someone explain how to not ejaculate??

Silence 2007-10-23T16:34:33Z Alchemy http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#179c7ce2-9dcb-4734-8067-774a8f330b0a 2007-10-23T00:39:52Z 2007-10-23T00:39:52Z

well, most of what I can say is based on something I heard Mantak Chia say - that unless she is doing energy practices she won't absorb the jing. My understanding is that the jing from male + the jing from the female -> jing for the child. There is something special about conception which results in the energy going to the fetus, but without conception the energy just dissipates unless you do some energetic practice to absorb it. If I venture into speculation - Suppose the opposite were true - if you got a shot of jing every time - my understanding is that jing is a foundational energy - so you would be getting - in some way - energetically stronger each time - which doesn't seem to be what is happening.

Alchemy 2007-10-23T00:39:52Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#4c591073-431c-48f5-8cf9-97034e1eed9c 2007-10-22T22:37:45Z 2007-10-22T22:37:45Z

Doesn't Chi follow the same rules as nature? Nature goes through a cycle of seed, growth, bloom, fertilization, new life, death, regeneration? Seems to me if life were all about holding back, the Chi or energy would become stagnant.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-10-22T22:37:45Z Alchemy http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#ce560f84-2d1a-4efc-98d6-b402edc0e3fa 2007-10-22T21:35:14Z 2007-10-22T21:35:14Z

my understanding is that this is only true to a limited degree unless she is also doing energy work.

Alchemy 2007-10-22T21:35:14Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#3c5d58d9-d73a-489f-a930-395be3701777 2007-10-22T20:26:32Z 2007-10-22T20:26:32Z

If you love the woman she will recycle it. It will not be "lost."

$item.owner.firstName 2007-10-22T20:26:32Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#713b71ce-79d1-42ff-a174-24f01b9f592c 2007-10-22T20:25:08Z 2007-10-22T20:25:08Z

Recycle it?

$item.owner.firstName 2007-10-22T20:25:08Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#8407e7df-eb99-4503-8ab1-e336f56d9214 2007-10-11T03:34:40Z 2007-10-11T03:34:40Z

Chi is a lifeforce that is the source of life and not a result of any other condition. Ancient does not mean correct n omatter how resolved or wise a person may be. I am not disagreeing with the contents of this thread, merely that chi does not come from jing, it cannot be owned and it cannot be depleted. Eternal energy is, well, eternal....

$item.owner.firstName 2007-10-11T03:34:40Z ron http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#ca272fb8-b80e-43fb-a88c-f395938ba0b8 2007-10-02T07:30:52Z 2007-10-02T07:30:52Z

Augh! Someone just wrote me to ensure I correct this: My second to last statement was MEANT to say that modern science does, indeed, say that ejaculation, even through masturbation, is proven to reduce prostate cancer. Thank you for pointing this out to me which allowed me to fix my confused statement.

ron 2007-10-02T07:30:52Z ron http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#305d428c-f8dc-4dd4-806d-97529ec655bc 2007-10-02T06:21:40Z 2007-10-02T06:21:40Z

Austin - Alchemist pretty much answered it. The Daoists knew, long before western science did, that if you want to reproduce you must 'exercise your Jing" and prevent energy blockages. Also, the ability to manipulate both your energy flows and your physical functions are essential to a complete, effective control of the instrument that is your body. Stimulus-free ejaculation is mere proof of the mastery of the initiate over his bodily functions and his energetic controls, as well as a necessary and useful exercise. I don't recall anything about prostate cancer being taught to me by the Daoists, but modern science does, indeed, say that lack of ejaculation, even through masturbation, is proven to reduce prostate cancer. It's a very useful ability which, unfortunately, I don't have.

ron 2007-10-02T06:21:40Z Alchemy http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#8896759d-13a6-468d-a4d1-8cd48c694ad1 2007-09-29T15:48:43Z 2007-09-29T15:48:43Z

I've been taught that as part of the sexual practices you must 'do regular and routine maintenance' on your testes and prostate - massage - to prevent stuck energy from accumulating. I do at least some massage after every practice session. Anyway, I could understand that ejaculation could be used to clean/clear/empty the system. Never heard of it without any sexual connection, but then there are lots of strange/wierd taoist tales - like drawing up wine thru your urethra Your prostate isn't the most accessible body part for massage...

Alchemy 2007-09-29T15:48:43Z Austin http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#c90cb7f6-9429-45ba-b9e5-1f230bb3f53a 2007-09-29T14:41:51Z 2007-09-29T14:41:51Z

Alchemist asked “what is the goal or benefit of being able to ejaculate without sexual stimulus?” I’m wondering the same thing. Honestly, I’ve never heard of anyone intentionally cultivating such a skill – it actually sounds more like a disorder to me. Just curious...

Austin 2007-09-29T14:41:51Z ron http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#cb9f1506-09c4-4a8d-b3d0-0ccf2918e8f3 2007-09-29T06:11:30Z 2007-09-29T06:11:30Z

I mean without any stimulus whatsoever, meaning no physical contact and no sexual turn-on. That's why I think it's a rather advanced ability, one that I absolutely do not possess. In fact, I am rarely able to ejaculate with any kind of orgasm, even if I put all my mind and energy into it; my body is just used to non-ejaculation, and the orgasm is so much more intense when I don't ejaculate. And yes, the medical benefits are indeed prevention of prostate cancer, reinvigoration of sperm production (essential if you want kids) and (not medically speaking, here) re-energizing the pathways that lead to sperm production.

ron 2007-09-29T06:11:30Z Alchemy http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#a781f0db-4945-4648-8cb8-643b14e5599f 2007-09-28T13:53:19Z 2007-09-28T13:53:19Z

hmmm, I thought I had read the previous threads ..... orgasm with no loss of jing and no loss of fluid is "standard" taoist sexual practice, and the level of pleasure can be dramatically greater than in "conventional sex" both in terms of intensity and duration. This is very clear to me, and part of my personal experience and practice. what is the goal or benefit of being able to ejaculate without sexual stimulus? does this have a health benefit (prostate)? I have no doubt that ejaculation and orgasm are two separate things. I have been taught that after you move all the energy out of the sperm there is effectively no loss of energy when you ejaculate, and if you do the sexual practices and want to have a child you should ejaculate the de-energized sperm and cease practicing to allow your body to create a fresh batch of sperm for the conception. I am very curious as to what you mean by / how you define 'without sexual stimulus' - do you mean without physical contact or do you mean without any 'sexual turn on"? For example, one can ejaculate as the result of a prostate massage, which could be pleasurable or not, could include sexual arousal, or not.

Alchemy 2007-09-28T13:53:19Z ron http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#5b6ae33a-f436-4f43-b74e-c75d1b941937 2007-09-28T06:34:25Z 2007-09-28T06:34:25Z

Alchemist - you didn't read the whole conversation, I think. If you go back and read the whole exchange, you'll see what I mean. Men who mastered the energetic techniques necessary to truly separate orgasm from ejaculation are able to ejaculate without any type of sexual stimulus and orgasm without any loss of pleasure, or any loss of Jing. Achieving that takes more than 6 months unless you're already trained in various breath/energy/channeling techniques.

ron 2007-09-28T06:34:25Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#989d4174-f57e-46af-8ed1-3a73d9157988 2007-09-27T00:25:52Z 2007-09-27T00:25:52Z

I talked to him about it, and he said he reversed it. Saying he ejaculated without orgasm. O.O

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-27T00:25:52Z Alchemy http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#fdc5aed2-2455-4de3-ae58-405de90f841d 2007-09-26T15:46:27Z 2007-09-26T15:46:27Z

Wow, achieving ejaculation without an orgasm, as you seem to have done, is the territory of rather evolved Daoist masters - I assume you meant "orgasm without ejaculation" - I think you over estimate the difficulty / rarity of this. My experience from when I used to teach is that with a good instructor it takes men between a few months and maybe two years of practice to have your first non-ejaculatory orgasm. Of course your mileage may vary, and I'm not talking about any level of mastery.

Alchemy 2007-09-26T15:46:27Z ron http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#4f3cff6d-269a-4f86-bf1c-8381eafe9669 2007-09-26T04:57:16Z 2007-09-26T04:57:16Z

Wow, achieving ejaculation without an orgasm, as you seem to have done, is the territory of rather evolved Daoist masters; it's something that I've never done nor tried to do, I concentrated my learning on the opposite. I'm impressed you managed to do that. As for your second point - I wouldn't be too sure... I'm far from being any kind of expert on Daoism, and, like I said, a lot of what i wrote is *my* spin on Daoism, my understanding, my notions. I hardly see myself as a qualified person to discuss the true intricacies of Daoism.

ron 2007-09-26T04:57:16Z Matthew http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#c902b964-7bf9-4a7c-b4c4-3a7aba17f858 2007-09-24T08:03:21Z 2007-09-24T08:03:21Z

Wow, total realization tonight. Ejeculated without an orgasm or "ahh feeling", and did not have the same experience i've had for years now. Usually orgasming leaves me feeling almost as if there is a hole in me at least energetically. low overall feeling and low phsyical energy level. But something different happened. At the point of no return the "spasm pump" was working but i could hold onto a frontal muscle which stoped that ahh release. realization. The energy aspect of an orgasm is related to the emotional pleasure release as stated earlier. More so, I realized that i usually compleatly dump all energy in my lower tan' tien leaveing me drained. right now it is still as full as it was before, and i do not feel drained in that way. Physical aspects of ejectualation still occures, drowsyness ect.. but i am drowsy and completly full of energy, if that makes sence. Wow! thanks letting me know that that is possible!! Up untill now just at the point of no return I would completly release probably making me more messed-up than most people since i've cultivated my lower tan tien and am use to having a huge storage of energy. I still plan on not ejeculating much in the future, as this realization was not a much about jing as a whole but chi storage. Realization 2 - Tantra and Taoist sex practices are way different. As for healing? when my hear chackra is way open, I tend to hold a lot of compassion for who i'm with. compassion and love are naturally healing energys. You don't even really need the intention of healing... should just happen as such high vibrational energy goes where it needs to. sexual healing?.. : ) add the intention to heal and you got some powerfull stuff going on. Holding space for who your with and focusing on them as if they are perfect is naturally healing as well. Big in tantra... You hold the idea that the being that your with is divine in nature and perfect. hindu tantrics invision their partners as if they were gods. Shiva Shakti as well as others that have a specific attribute. Recognizing the divine nature in whoever you are with is very powerfull in many ways. As energy follows the mind... reality often follows beliefs..... basic concepts of the secrit... other energy invensted in sex goes to raizing my partner up if needed. not nessesarily needing to be intentional. So now i guess i just have to learn to have full bodied orgasms.....

Matthew 2007-09-24T08:03:21Z ron http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#a6fa91cd-4313-400b-84af-1dc605104e9f 2007-09-23T05:51:20Z 2007-09-23T05:51:20Z

Sorry Matt, yes - I was answering YOUR entry. Your knowledge is much broader than mine, I only studied with Daoists and with Karen Burmese, two very different disciplines than Tantra. I'm afraid my response was way off as I was thinking you were still speaking of Daoist techniques. My choice of words was also misleading - higher vibration is achieved through energy rechanneling and from straightening and strengthening the lines between your chakras. I know I'm REALLY oversimplifying things here, but since you seem to be quite verse with qi-gong/chi-gong (certainly more than me) I assume you know what I'm talking about. I don't have enough knowledge to know if I can agree with the Tantric idea of excess Jing, it goes counter to my understanding of what Jing is, and there's really no equivalent to Kudelini in Daoism, either, so my response to you is limited by my lack of knowledge there. Here is my spin on Daoist teachings: Jing is earth energy, the densest, and can be focused through the lower chakras; it is the Yin. We are born with a finite amount of it, and although we can accumulate more (as I discussed earlier), we lose a lot of it, relative to other activities, when we ejaculate. According to my master's master, that's one reason women live longer than men. Thus one must preserve the Ching, thus preserving Jing, which, after all, is involved in creating the Ching - both the individual sperm and the seminal fluids. Ejaculate, according to the Chinese, has Jing in it, so you give a tiny bit of life to your partner when you ejaculate {I still wouldn't use this as an excuse to avoid condoms ;) }. There are plenty of other ways to use Jing - Heroin will lose you a LOT more Jing for example, as will some emotions such as hatred, spite, bitterness, jealousy, and so on. So ejaculation is hardly the worse way to lose Jing, and is rather secondary to preserving the Jing to meditation, proper foods, clean living, and balanced emotions. If you're concerned about losing Jing, you're better off eating healthier, finding and strengthening your bottom Tan t'ien, being less angry and bitter, meditating and slowing down the pace of life than you are stopping to ejaculate, according to Daoism. I happen to agree with it. Still, I LOVE not ejaculating, I LOVE having multiple orgasms, intense and full-bodied, I LOVE the tingly forehead and the total relaxation without the loss of Jing and without risk of pregnancies, wetspots, and mess :) To answer your questions, I DO use Jing, and, like you, on rare occasion give it to a loved one. I do NOT, however, use it in healing, nor should I; I'm impressed that you do, but at the same time I don't get it... There are SO many types of energy that you can use for healing...

ron 2007-09-23T05:51:20Z Matthew http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#c0c36e79-9660-4b40-90ac-ac325bf8f885 2007-09-22T02:35:10Z 2007-09-22T02:35:10Z

Ron I think you were referring to my post. No the practice I descibe is basic elements of a hinduesk style of Tantra. The philosophy from the teachers I studied with--- people have excess jing or primortial energy that arises naturaly any cyclicly and need to transmute it into something constructive or waste it. They have a practice for women as well that transmutes sexual energy lost during menstration. Suposedly men have another type of cycle but i know less about that. The idea is almost like sexual alchemy in a sence. I appoligize because I am pulling in words from different diciplines to describe the same thing. so I mention Jing/ and tan' tiens because I practice qi gong as well, but learned the sexual side to energy from tantra and merged the two. So I can learn a lot from you on the taoist side! I did mention that you still loose a bit of jing to a degree. I find that i loose jing slowly through sex because i tend to sending it into my partner as well even when the energy has been raised. I tend to use my energy for healing during sex. Learning to delay both orgasm and ejeculation indefinietly was the first step for me. I think control s first nessisary for any practice, so tantric excercises might add to taoist practices. As far as the higher oscillating non spasmatic full body orgasm.. I haven't tried to do that yet. Dwelling in the pleasure in sex in general has been enough so far, as tend to get small orgasic sensations but no orgasm. I'd love to talk more about that with you about that practice. are you raising your vibration using breath and pulling in energy from the outside like in traditional forms of qi-gong? Do you utilize the jing energy at all? and does the lower tan' tien play into it? thanks Matt

Matthew 2007-09-22T02:35:10Z ron http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#24f144b1-1a12-47d8-ae11-81fffc4d3f98 2007-09-21T04:43:57Z 2007-09-21T04:43:57Z

Nathan - I have no idea what I was disagreeing with, silly me... Sorry for the confusion. Lucid Wolf - What you're describing is not the Daoist techniques I mentioned, it's not separating orgasm (energy) from ejaculation (physical); instead, I think, it simply delays both, effectively. You may still lose Jing because, energetically, you've changed nothing. I'm no authority on this nor do I claim special knowledge, but to me your technique sounds like a rechanneling of the energies rather than learning to oscillate at a higher vibration and bifurcate the physical away from the energetic. I LOVE what you said about opening the middle siquential, beautifully (and correctly, imo) stated!

ron 2007-09-21T04:43:57Z Lucid Wolf http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#a417c449-e101-419c-82e0-ed02d89b6ed2 2007-09-20T19:38:39Z 2007-09-20T19:38:39Z

Thank you for this reply my brother.

Lucid Wolf 2007-09-20T19:38:39Z Lucid Wolf http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#519e1799-65fd-44ac-81b4-f931f9a7905d 2007-09-20T19:30:49Z 2007-09-20T19:30:49Z

Thank you andrew the link and your frank down to earth advice is much appreaciated,and i do believe it would be good to have a teacher as well.

Lucid Wolf 2007-09-20T19:30:49Z Matthew http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#724afaee-ce76-41f2-bba2-b0e30409261c 2007-09-20T18:29:19Z 2007-09-20T18:29:19Z

Lucid Wolf, I think for starters the best practice you can to to stop ejeculating is do PC muscle excercises. Its mentioned in the multiorgasmic man as well as other texts. Basicly when noone is around, (sounds weird in public) when urinating you stop and start the stream of urin about 70 -100 times. Its hard and feels unnatural at first but seriously mastery over this muscle will reallly help you regulate yourself during sex. you can excercise this muscle during the day al well. Its the same as kegal excercises for women. The second part is complete relaxation. You have to be able to sit into this muscle and have it completly relaxed during an encounter. flexing this muscle is a natural urge during sex, which is ok on some level but you those old taoist masters would probably say you are loosing small amounts of Jing in doing so. I find that mastery over the PC muscle can let you completly relax which is where you should spend most of your time, and when strong enough be able to hold the muscle tight and long enough to stop an ejectulation responce when you think you are coming up on the point of no return. I have been dealing with this problem for years. Some women think I'm weird to not want to ejeculate and get pissed because they can't satisfy their ego much like a man does when he makes a woman orgasm. I find that I have to date women that are more openminded. Like said above you need a partner that will support you fully. Lastly, once you have mastered ejectulation... now what.. You will have to deal with what the layman thinks is sexual frustration... such a high build of sexual energy that the most primitive inclination is to get rid of it.... You then need to learn how to transmute the energy to higher energy centers, up the spine, ect ect. it is good to cultivate energy centers in order to store and better know how to move this energy around. I find that cultivating the lower tan' tein (energy center under the belly button believed to be a major storehouse of energy) can really help in holding onto this energy, and staying grounded with it. sexual frustration seems most excessive when a person doesn not know how to stay grouded. learning to ground will probably make you deal with what ever issues/tensions are in your body. at least it does for me often. the sweetist thing is that you can open up the middle and upper tan' tiens to recieve sexual energy during a sexual act. Opening up the middle siquential to me as opening up the heart chackra. Theres a saying that energy follows thought. A lot of moving energy i think is just about focusing on the two points. just opening the heart for me sends a bright heartfelt energy out. you can use this energy for healing (though you shouldn't use your own energy for healing) and you will feel more love. sending it into the upper tan' tein will help you in figuring things out. It is the mental center or what i believe is the 3rd eye. it will help raise your conciousness, That is the goal of many tantrictas... to evolve and use sexual energy for spiritual growth.. Cool... so i am open to hearing anyone's thoughts reflections on what i just wrote.. Some things may conflict with other's beliefs, especially the tan' teins being the same as the chackras. I have heard people saying they are the same and that they are different. Whatever the case all this stuff is what I have come to know in my journey. Good Luck

Matthew 2007-09-20T18:29:19Z $item.owner.firstName http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#e21976ca-f597-4366-87fd-dcdedcdd2adb 2007-09-20T04:16:15Z 2007-09-20T04:16:15Z

I think alot of people start out on this path, but when you realize the time, effort, dedication and money required; it become daunting. You can learn Taoist Esoteric Healing practices on your own, such as the separation of orgasm and ejaculation, but anyone who can do this safely knows the importance of a great teacher. You can and should learn by reading library books and renting videos but it would be downright dangerous to advance beyond the basic meditations without professional guidance. Luckily there is an amazing Taoist centre in upstate New York: http://www.healingtaousa.com/daomountain.html If I was new to this, my impression would be that it will take years of dedicated practice to get results. The reality is that you can recover a lot of the jing lost to ejaculation, and still ejaculate. Even if you are going to ejaculate, it is beneficial to try to recover some of the essence from the sperm and route it back into your body. I personally favor this method because sometimes you just gotta let it out and your partner may be more attached to you ejaculating than you think. That is my opinion of course but when you approach any tantric practice you have to determine the level of involvement of your sexual partner(s), if you are indeed being with other people. If you are in a relationship, it is nearly impossible to be on this path without full support from your partner. It is always gonna easier to do this alone; thus monks secluding themselves in caves and hermitages. The Taoist practices detailed by Mantak Chia are meant to be accessible, but that does not mean they are without pitfalls. You can get great results in a short period of time; continuing this growth will require dedication and some respected teachers. Good Luck.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-20T04:16:15Z Nathan http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#140fd150-51f5-4ef4-b978-60d3aa7cde5f 2007-09-19T07:14:33Z 2007-09-19T07:14:33Z

I didn't catch what you thought was inaccurate about the previous post(s); care to elaborate? The easiest way to replenish jing (aside from the vortex route) is simply to put your awareness at a point about an inch above the perineum. This should be done while sitting with the knees lower than the pelvis. After some time, that point will get very hot, and the pre-natal jing will arise from there and fill all the organs until the jing is overflowing again, at which point it starts to transmute into chi, and when that is overflowing into shen, and when that is overflowing back into void. I wasn't aware of the practice of sun conditioning. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Nathan 2007-09-19T07:14:33Z ron http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#1adaebaa-7975-43ee-b478-a755097d26fc 2007-09-19T06:25:23Z 2007-09-19T06:25:23Z

Sorry, no. An old man can't really practice sex the way a young man can not only because of the obvious physical decay but also because of the loss of Jing. While some functionality can be retained with, say, viagra, the actual energetic levels, physical pleasure and the temporary state of blank bliss experienced by a younger man is really lost and gone in an older person. Alas.

ron 2007-09-19T06:25:23Z ron http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#e59c20ec-688a-4f8c-a189-5a70192cffd3 2007-09-19T06:22:10Z 2007-09-19T06:22:10Z

I want to comment on some statements here which are, in my opinion, somewhat inaccurate. First of all, I did study at a Daoist temple and learned to stop the loss of Jing. Note that you DO lost Chi - even the word for ejaculate or seminal fluid is Ching, and the word Ching contains the word Chi. But it's Jing you lose. I absolutely believe that to be true. I almost never ejaculate unless I have a strong intent to; the great Masters can ejaculate, or not, at will, but my studies taught me to separate orgasm, which is an energy state, with ejaculation, which is a physical state resulting in loss of Jing. Even my "wet dreams" are dry. The upside? Multiple orgasms. The sensation is as good as, if not better than, any orgasm I've had before, and I don't miss ejaculating at all. No loss of Jing, youthful appearance and energy, and no wet spots ;) The downside? Probably a very low sperm count, so if I ever want kids I need to ejaculate more. With that in mind, I've tried to increase the number of times I actually ejaculate, but frankly it's so much better to go without ejaculating... If I decide to try and ejaculate, I have to shift things before I ever get aroused, or my body will go with the usual routine and not ejaculate. It's not only Jing you lose, but also essential amino acids, nutrients, minerals and chi. Jing, though, can be rebuilt with exercises as mentioned by others, with, among other things, sun conditioning (routing the light of the rising or setting sun into your body through your eyes), with a very specific diet, and with certain sexual practices that I won't get into. Shen, which by some standards is the most essential of all energies, isn't affected by ejaculation, sex or any of the lower chakras. Hope this helps.

ron 2007-09-19T06:22:10Z Beach http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#91a437a8-d46f-4adc-a689-a399d2d61c79 2007-09-18T14:35:47Z 2007-09-18T14:35:47Z

I find this hard to believe. Nothing wrong with conserving sexual energy, but the generator of this most powerful life force is ever growing till death and many believe beyond. X's, Beach

Beach 2007-09-18T14:35:47Z cassidy http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#a62c34d7-666a-4a0f-ab05-7267dde49b57 2007-09-18T04:27:56Z 2007-09-18T04:27:56Z

The Multi-orgasmic Man by Mantak Chia explains how one can still have the health benifits of the raised energy of orgasm without ejaculation. Another thought is what to do with the conserved jing. First it has to be converted into qi and then sent up the spinal chord to nourish the brain. From a scientific view the elements that are in semen are the same that are in spinal fluid.

cassidy 2007-09-18T04:27:56Z ZTM http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#b93e8457-7a47-422c-b825-87766df576d8 2007-09-14T19:49:14Z 2007-09-14T19:49:14Z

Yea Qi gong does. Check out Mantak Chia's Books. All the spiritual traditions have some sort of understanding (some more twisted and contrived than others) That sexual energy must be retiained and transformed to produce higher transformations. Taoism has the best angle on it. Instead of forcing yourself into self oppressive celibicay; Taosits teach you to "master" your energy, Including preventing ejaculation. Seperating the orgasum, from ejaculation. Some Taoists have belived that even being aroused is a unfortutate leaking of sexual energy. These Taoists were however on their way to total immortality. Nowadays since pretty much 100% of everything in society is pushed by sexual energy, it's pretty impossible to be so impeccable and perfect to not even be aroused. Ads, Commericals, Jingles and Market propaganda all pushes this energy around to seduce you and hypnotise you into facination for their worthless garbage product. It also lowers the consciousness to the more instintual realm of desires and impulse. Thus selling their merchandise. Read this: http://kalignosis.com/book/04TheSexualProblem.php You should not disperse you energy more than 1 time a month at your age. It's better to be more strict than loose here. There is really no reason to ejaculate, unless you just WANT to be depleated. It also lowers your ability to concentrate and stay centered. It's a really profound depleation. You might as well be draining your blood out of your veins. One of the Emperors China ratained himself for a ratio of 1-2 times a year. I'm sure he had a billion wives too. He lived a long time, and was high spirited.

ZTM 2007-09-14T19:49:14Z Alchemy http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#99b2910c-9f8c-459d-9cec-10bea5b2fb5a 2007-09-13T20:38:08Z 2007-09-13T20:38:08Z

As another person already clarified, the taoists say that you lose jing by ejaculating. In my experience this seems to be true, and often it has seemed to be a somewhat subtle loss, especially when I was in my 20s. You can build up and cultivate your chi independently of whether or not you ejaculate, you get into one of those "can you fill the bucket faster than it is leaking" kinds of situations, to oversimplify. I am told that you can also rebuild your jing, I am not familiar with the vortex technique mentioned in another post, and i have not personally studied or practiced the taoist methods of rebuilding your jing - I am not that advanced. Almost any form of chi kung, practiced in a sensible manner will bring some degree of healing to the body, since there are thousands of forms of chi kung, it is hard to generalize. I've learned mostly from instructors / teachers and directly from Mantak Chia. I tend to recommend that people learn from a person rather than a book or DVD since there are so many questions you can ask, and that way you have someone keeping an eye on you in the unlikely event that you wander off into the deep weeds. I haven't done much research in the last 10 years, so I'm not sure how many people / systems are teaching the sexual practices. Personally, I don't believe that simply stopping ejaculation will do much for you, unless you actually do something with that energy. If you want to do the sexual practices - stop ejaculating - cultivate your sexual energy - you must do it as part of a routine that includes regular meditation, and you may need to include some form of grounding or rooting practice - like martial arts ./ tai chi / standing meditation. I can tell you from my personal experience that stopping ejaculating is quite simple, but not easy, and that the rewards are worth it - both energetically and from a pleasure standpoint. I can also tell you that I've met very few people who've been able to do the practice long term with a partner. FYI.

Alchemy 2007-09-13T20:38:08Z Nathan http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#d2cea920-b1f9-403f-8684-74cf2bb4a8be 2007-09-13T18:44:05Z 2007-09-13T18:44:05Z

I don't know of any specific exercises for retaining your jing during orgasm, but I know they're out there. For me just maintaining the focus/intent of not falling into that "ahh" seemed to work well enough. For VortexHealing, you can check out www.vortexhealing.com. My Web site also distills a lot of the information there, so you can go to www.healingforthesoul.com. Just let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. Peace.

Nathan 2007-09-13T18:44:05Z Lucid Wolf http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#d16fdc70-a13a-48c7-82f0-b309d444fd0f 2007-09-13T18:39:19Z 2007-09-13T18:39:19Z

wow!!!,thank you Nathan for breaking it down for me better,I think i fall into the catergory of people who lose jing during ejaculation and must budget my expenditure of how many times i ejaculate a weel because when i get excessive i can feel the drag and I seem to lose motivation for excersise and my sharp mental focus gets dull.I was told that there is excersises to practice so that during ejaculation we won't fall into that default place of the "ahh" where the jing is depleated and tensions relased.Is it a mental thing to do or breathing excersise that one must employ during the orgasm?and could you recommend some website links or book on the subject?.Vortex healing sounds deep,are there any links on that as well?,thanks for your help Nathan,peace. P.S.-I just thought of a cool bumper sticker "Life don't mean a thing if you ain't got your Jing!!" lol.

Lucid Wolf 2007-09-13T18:39:19Z Nathan http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#9432a8e6-32d9-44a8-8893-1c9a3f35b61e 2007-09-13T16:31:57Z 2007-09-13T16:31:57Z

I studied with a Taoist master for some time, so I know a bit about this - It is not your chi that is lost in ejaculation, it is your "jing". Jing, chi, and shen are the three energies that emerge from yin and yang. Jing is the basic building block of physicality, and chi comes from jing. When you are born, you only have so much jing, and when it is depleted, you die. However, the loss of jing has nothing to do with seminal fluid. Men lose their jing more as a result of the emotional release that happens upon ejaculation. It's at that point when you think/feel "Ahhhh!" and all the built up tension releases. So if you can resist falling into that space during ejaculation, you won't lose very much jing. Since having learned about all of this, I have been studying something called VortexHealing. The main VortexHealing teacher started looking into the phenomenon of jing after I explained to him what it was, and he found some interesting ways to replenish jing. What's more, he noticed that not everyone loses jing upon ejaculation - people who have released all of the karma knots in their spine don't lose jing that way. He couldn't understand why that would be until I explained what I've explained here, and then it made sense to both of us.

Nathan 2007-09-13T16:31:57Z Lucid Wolf http://chiflow.tribe.net/thread/223fb7e3-da22-4295-b1a0-094376571ce4#bb13bc68-c6c5-4a22-93ac-cae4758f6a76 2007-09-13T03:42:38Z 2007-09-13T03:42:38Z

if so how often would considered squandering of that energy for a 36 yr old man such as myself,i have come across taoist sexual books that speak of orgasm without ejaculation and has put emphasis on seminal retention to cultivate the chi/ki force of the body.I would like to pursue healing but i feel as if i might need to regulate my expenditure through ejaculation in order to cultivate energy better,does Qi Gong deal with this matter?

Lucid Wolf 2007-09-13T03:42:38Z